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Midget Set-Up / Scale Weights ?


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#16
Bluedresser

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QUOTE(larryo @ Aug 10 2007, 05:14 PM) View Post

biggrin.gif aaaaahhhhh bench racing..I love it...LOL!

Paul poses an interesing question.

1) Let's take a quote from Smokey...LOL!

I really believe he had more than a high school education. He has been quoted as saying
he had taken two years of college, which by my standards is all you need.

He believed in chemistry, math and physics and he encouraged "ALL" to get as much education
as they could.

He flew in the war, so aerodynamics was key in anything he did including racing/Daytona and Indy.

2) I feel engineering get's you in the ball park, but you still need a racer to tell you what to do.
The racer has the experiece and can tell you what will work and what won't.

a) I read a book on the GT-40. I think it was SAE or some technical papers. The engineers
developed a beautiful baseline car. AJ Foyt, Dan Gurney and few others ripped
out all the ducting , changed a few things, and got that car to really go...LOL?

1) First time an American Mfg, beat out Ferrari. Now, how sweet is that? Hallelujah!! Sweet
Land of Dixie...lol!


3) One of the reasons I scale a car or want to is so that I'm not to light when you come into tech.
How would you like to come into tech, get on the scales only to find out you were too light?

1) We come close and others have been DQ'd.

2) Top that off with a driver that insists the car be as light as possible. There are very few
things I can do. But I know know much fuel weighs and how much we used...LOL!

4) I was once told by a brilliant man, that I use my education only because I have it.
He didn't have it, got along fine without it and didn't need it lol! Now, isn't that the truth.


5) I live in a world, where I can't tell somebody what I feel. I got to prove it. Math and science
it the universal lanquage used all around the world. When you put something down with
pen and paper, everything becomes plain as day or just the opposite. What the heck
you talking about? That ain't right.


6) So to put it in a nut shell, if it works for you, fine. If not you can get along without it.


Sincerely,

Larry "O" laugh.gif


P.S. I loved the one where "Smokey" put on extra large fuel tanks. Then put a bag in the tank.
Filled it with air to take up some of the space. He went to tech and they filled it. It met
the MAX volume. Later he deflated the bag, put in the extra fuel and laughed all the
way to the bank. Now, he's my hero...lol! Yankee Doodle Dandy.

Bluedresser I will look for you if I'm helping Bob. unsure.gif


Larry - Completely forgot about the fuel tank inflatable bladder. I think he did that before the oversized fuel line. I read his book, but got a lot of extra info from friends Bob Harkey and Jerry Karl who knew him well. I like the story the Jerry tells of running the twin turbo-charged engine at the speedway, and after the engine began coming apart, Jerry shut it down and manuevered between the walls down in turn one. After coming in the pits Smokey asked him what the manifold readings were when he shut it down and Jerry siad something to the effect of ----- the manifold readings -- I was doing my best to keep it between the walls. Not getting an answer he thought he was fired and mentioned it to Harkey who told me that at that time Smokey was so deaf that if he wasn't looking at you he didn't hear you. That was what had happened and Jerry continued to drive the car.


#17
larryo

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laugh.gif Well,

Do you think we have totally exhausted this subject? Hmmmmm, well, I once traveled to Florida,
in search of the "Darn Best Garage" in Florida. Found it...LOL! But I was not able to meet the man.

Saw "Smokey" leave the shop with his Doberman Pincher, and chated with his daughter at the "Bird" Shop.

Smokey also has a cassette tape out, but it's narrated by somebody else. It explores a few adventures
of the man. I like the one where he tried and I think succeeded in bringing back a lion/tiger back into the states. Now, there's an adventure.

I recently read an article in Hot Rod magazine or one of the others. They were restoring one
of the "Yenko"/Penske/Sonoco racing Cheverolet Trans Am Camaros. The restorer said the body
had been chopped, decked and you name it to change the shape of the body. Another forgotten
trait of the man who shaped racing as we see it today.

One of the best ideas I think he ever had was done way back in the 50's. It kind of tells you
the depth a man will go to be on top. In the old days, when they weren't pumping cars and checking
cam lobes, they went strickly by the stamping on the end of the cam. He actually got hold of
the origingal stamping machine. Ground his own cams and stamped the Serial Number on the end. Now ain't that clever...LOL!

As we get back into racing, only two weeks away...lol, my mind wanders, in search of that enevidable
traction lost by the "hard" right tire we use at Ventura Raceway.

1) How about a "12" tie down shock?

2) Think we need to add some "tilt"?

3) How about the helper spring on the RF? It worked on the FF Midget.

4) Maybe we need to drop the "Jacobs" ladder.


What do you think Blue Dresser? How to you hook up a "Hard" right tire when you have 600 ft-lbs of
torque and 725 HP and 1400 lbs of wt with about 200 lbs of it, dead nuts ahead of your feet.

See you at Ventura,

Larry "O" tongue.gif

#18
Bluedresser

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QUOTE(larryo @ Aug 14 2007, 08:36 AM) View Post

laugh.gif Well,

Do you think we have totally exhausted this subject? Hmmmmm, well, I once traveled to Florida,
in search of the "Darn Best Garage" in Florida. Found it...LOL! But I was not able to meet the man.

Saw "Smokey" leave the shop with his Doberman Pincher, and chated with his daughter at the "Bird" Shop.

Smokey also has a cassette tape out, but it's narrated by somebody else. It explores a few adventures
of the man. I like the one where he tried and I think succeeded in bringing back a lion/tiger back into the states. Now, there's an adventure.

I recently read an article in Hot Rod magazine or one of the others. They were restoring one
of the "Yenko"/Penske/Sonoco racing Cheverolet Trans Am Camaros. The restorer said the body
had been chopped, decked and you name it to change the shape of the body. Another forgotten
trait of the man who shaped racing as we see it today.

One of the best ideas I think he ever had was done way back in the 50's. It kind of tells you
the depth a man will go to be on top. In the old days, when they weren't pumping cars and checking
cam lobes, they went strickly by the stamping on the end of the cam. He actually got hold of
the origingal stamping machine. Ground his own cams and stamped the Serial Number on the end. Now ain't that clever...LOL!

As we get back into racing, only two weeks away...lol, my mind wanders, in search of that enevidable
traction lost by the "hard" right tire we use at Ventura Raceway.

1) How about a "12" tie down shock?

2) Think we need to add some "tilt"?

3) How about the helper spring on the RF? It worked on the FF Midget.

4) Maybe we need to drop the "Jacobs" ladder.


What do you think Blue Dresser? How to you hook up a "Hard" right tire when you have 600 ft-lbs of
torque and 725 HP and 1400 lbs of wt with about 200 lbs of it, dead nuts ahead of your feet.

See you at Ventura,

Larry "O" tongue.gif

Larry - those numbers you quote are more than my old brain can comprehend.

#19
larryo

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biggrin.gif Well Bluedresser,

1) Do you believe Dyno Sheets? With the motor came the dyno sheet. I scanned it roughly
and quickly. From 5000 rpm to 6500 rpm, the motor puts out about 600-625 ft-lbs of torque.

2) From 6500 rpm to 8000 rpm the motor puts out about 700-725 Hp. The motor has been
run to about 8600 - 8800 rpm in racing conditions.

I think the rules at Ventura, say you must weigh in at 1450 lbs, with driver, that's why we
need to scale the car. We don't know how heavy the car is or the wheel wts.

Let talk about sway bars. I was talking to my old friend. He's about 68 years old...lol and he
still drives a sprint car.

I asked him to you know how a sway bar works? He laughed and said "I'm thinking about it".

Well, this is my idea. A sway bar keep the front end flat. But in reality if you didn't have it
the LF would raise in the air. It (LF) would be a like a pendulum dangling in the air.

By tying the RF to the LF with a bar, it forces the LF down. Instead of having the LF dangling
or not connected to the RF, you actually drive the LF down, which in turns acts as a lever,
about 5 ft from the rear of the car forcing the RR down and consequently the LR.

They say the LR gets a lot of bite with a front sway bar, but I think the RR gets some too..lol!

What do you think "Blue"?

Larry "O" cool.gif





#20
Bluedresser

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QUOTE(larryo @ Aug 14 2007, 12:54 PM) View Post

biggrin.gif Well Bluedresser,

1) Do you believe Dyno Sheets? With the motor came the dyno sheet. I scanned it roughly
and quickly. From 5000 rpm to 6500 rpm, the motor puts out about 600-625 ft-lbs of torque.

2) From 6500 rpm to 8000 rpm the motor puts out about 700-725 Hp. The motor has been
run to about 8600 - 8800 rpm in racing conditions.

I think the rules at Ventura, say you must weigh in at 1450 lbs, with driver, that's why we
need to scale the car. We don't know how heavy the car is or the wheel wts.

Let talk about sway bars. I was talking to my old friend. He's about 68 years old...lol and he
still drives a sprint car.

I asked him to you know how a sway bar works? He laughed and said "I'm thinking about it".

Well, this is my idea. A sway bar keep the front end flat. But in reality if you didn't have it
the LF would raise in the air. It (LF) would be a like a pendulum dangling in the air.

By tying the RF to the LF with a bar, it forces the LF down. Instead of having the LF dangling
or not connected to the RF, you actually drive the LF down, which in turns acts as a lever,
about 5 ft from the rear of the car forcing the RR down and consequently the LR.

They say the LR gets a lot of bite with a front sway bar, but I think the RR gets some too..lol!

What do you think "Blue"?

Larry "O" cool.gif

Larry - I don't really know what I'm talking about, but do remember an old time owner/driver/mechanic (Cal Niday) telling me that weights on a race car work as a "Z". With that in mind, if your LF is in the air and you add a front sway bar, that should take some of the RF weight and transfer it to the LF, putting weight on both front tires which should then loosen the car as the front end would be pinned down in the turn. The resultant force on acceleration should then "Z" to the LR which will tighten the car up somewhat coming off the turn, but some of the weight will also move over to the RR. Will it be enough to loosen you up off the corner? I don't think so, but like I said at the start, I really don't know what I'm talking about, but my guess would be that the front sway bar by itself should loosen the car going in, and tighten it coming off.


#21
larryo

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biggrin.gif Dear JR,

Thankyou very much. You made my day. That is a perfect defintion if I have ever heard one.

I even printed out your response and I will post it in our tool box.

You see "sway" bars have intriqued me for the last several months. I have spent hours in the
shop welding, fabricating and playing with sway bars, springs and shocks. My project is atrocious
and should be banned from existence on earth...lol! It's really bad, but that is how I learn. I just
start welding things, reading things, looking at other peoples stuff and ask a few questions.

Everyone once in awhile someone throws me back a "Gem". I have been told a sway bar is
the key essential ingredient to make our sprint car team a winner. I have one more egg in the
basket to fully understanding what we need to do to win.

Thankyou,

Larry "O"




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