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For Paul Gray.


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#31
Lethal Threat

Lethal Threat

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Larry like Paul stated ""Well , we haven't talked about King Pin Inclination here for awhile now !
This will become a "disguised" thread for everything but ... just tack it on here to the bottom of what was formerly a tech discussion ! Kinda like all the "pork" hidden in legislation by our US Senators on Capital Hill!""
What i believe Paul meant was this is a Tech Forum ,My Dad,s well being is not Tech, and Paul could careless and so should everyone else.
This post and the my previous post wasn't meant to bash or step on toes, I just have an opinion, and there were some questions in there I would like answered also. I normally don't get on forums and post because what is said is usually taken the wrong way.My Opinion is if you take it the wrong way must be the way you really feel or you wouldnt take it the wrong way, I don't want to make anyone mad, Racing is getting expensive and in my opinion to Technical and is getting out of the Drivers hands,People are going to be looking for cheaper series,Car counts are low all over, but after getting involved in 305's myself, it needs a little more organization before it will go too far"in my area". I am not Rich nor do i have big money Sponsors nor have i ever had any,neverless i have always took what we could afford and alot of help from people like on this forum who believed in my ability as a Driver resulting in Very impressive accomplishments, "Ya know back when people helped because they wanted to and wasnt about the ol might dollar",Not many people help because of driving ability as the #1 priority that has moved to #3 behind sponsorship dollars and are you marketable,If I offened anyone, PM me and let me know how. I will gladly try to explain what I meant.

Paul i will put my 3 kids through college then can I brag like i really did something extraordinarily uncommon, "1 is already in college on a full scholarship and the other 2 carry 4.0 grade averages"
I do wish you the best of luck in 2008 in whatever series you race

Now lets not leave this post without mentioning "KING PIN INCLINATION" addressing Larry's specific
questions on King Pin Inclination, Caster, Scrub radius and getting wt transfer to the Left Rear.

Getting wt transfer to the Left Rear:
The most fundamental way of changing the handling of your car is by redistributing the weight. The weight distribution of a car is determined by literally placing a scale under each wheel. When making weight distribution adjustments, you must consider the weight transitions that the car experiences while you are driving. For example, when you accelerate, weight shifts toward the back of the car onto the rear wheels. When you turn right, weight shifts to the left side of the car. You can feel these weight transfers on your body while you are driving.

The most useful weight adjustment is front bias, or the weight distribution between the front and rear wheels. The purpose of adjusting front bias is to balance the weight of the car evenly between the front and rear wheels while the car is turning. If the front tires have more weight on them while turning, then they will have to exert more force on the racetrack than the rear tires to keep from sliding. The same goes for the rear tires. This can be seen from basic physics:

F = ma = (m * v^2) / R
F = Force
m = mass
a = acceleration
v = velocity
R = radius

It can be determined that the acceleration of an object of mass “m” traveling around a circle of radius “R” with a velocity “v” is v^2/R, and the force necessary to stay on the circular path with this velocity is just the object’s mass multiplied by that acceleration. Let’s assume that your car has more weight on the front tires than on the rear tires. Looking at the formula above, we can see that mass is the only thing that changes the force that the tires must exert since the square of velocity and radius are essentially identical for the front and rear of the car. Therefore, since the front has more mass, the front tires will have to provide more force than the rear tires to keep from sliding. Eventually, the front tires will begin to slip before the rear tires, which is the definition of understeer.

Making the weight on the front tires and the rear tires equal in a turn does not necessarily mean that the weight distribution should be 50/50 (50% front, 50% rear) while the car is standing still. The type of track you plan to drive on determines the ideal weight distribution. If the track requires getting on the throttle early in the turns, then weight will be transferred to the rear of the car while you are in the turn. Therefore, you should add weight to the front of the car to offset the weight transfer when you get on the throttle.

Instead of using a 50/50 distribution, you might want to try 55/45. The front of the car will be heavier than the rear when the car is standing still, but when you accelerate in a turn, weight will shift to the rear and balance the car. If you are driving on a track with short, sharp turns, then you will probably be getting on the throttle late in the turn. Therefore, you want a more even weight distribution to start out with (possibly 51/49) so that the weight will be evenly distributed as you drive through the turn.

Generally, if you are driving on a road coarse with approximately the same number of left and right turns, front bias should be the only weight adjustment that you work with. However, there are two other adjustments that can improve handling if you will be racing on an oval or a track with predominantly right or left turns: left weight bias and cross weight. Left bias is adding weight to the left side of the car so that it will be balanced in left turns. The same can be done for right turns.


Cross Weight

Cross weight (AKA wedge) is slightly more complicated. Front bias and left bias adjustments are made by actually moving components of the car around to try to achieve the desired weight distribution (e.g. moving the battery to the left side or rear of the car). Cross weight is adjusted by lowering or raising the upper spring perches on each corner of the car to raise or lower that corner.

To understand how cross weight works, imagine a car that is perfectly level with the ground (equal ride height at each corner). If you raise the left rear corner (increase cross weight), that corner now carries more weight because it is sticking up. In addition, the car is leaning towards the right front (trying to compress the right front spring) so that corner is holding more weight than it did when the car was level. The left rear and right front hold more of the weight of the car than the right rear and left front.

If you lower the left rear corner of the car, then the left front and right rear corners are sticking up more than the left rear. Therefore, the left front and right rear hold more of the weight while there is less weight on the left rear. Since the left rear corner is lowered, the car leans in that direction, which also takes weight off of the right front tire. In summary, by lowering the left rear (decreasing cross weight), the weight on the left front and right rear increases, and the weight on the right front and left rear decreases.

Cross weight is usually measured as a percentage of the total weight of the car. Take the following weight distribution as an example:

Left front: 750 lbs., Right front: 700 lbs.
Left rear: 700 lbs., Right rear: 750 lbs.

The cross weight is simply the left rear/right front (diagonal) weight divided by the total weight of the car and multiplied by 100 to make it a percentage. In this case, the cross weight is:

[(2 * 700) / (2 * 700 + 2 * 750)] * 100 = 48.3 %

Cross weight will not change left bias or front bias weight distribution. Using the example above, you can see that front bias is 50% ((750+700)/(750+700)), and left bias is also 50%. Assume you decrease cross weight to 46.6 % with the following settings (while keeping total weight the same as before):

Left front: 775 lbs., Right front: 675 lbs.
Left rear: 675 lbs., Right rear: 775 lbs.

The front bias and left bias are both still 50%.

Decreasing cross weight adds oversteer to the car in left turns. The front tires grip better since the left front starts out with more weight than the right front. In the turn, weight transfers from the left front to the right front, which balances the front of the car and maximizes grip. On the other hand, the rear of the car is not balanced in a turn. The right rear holds much more weight than the left rear. Therefore, the rear tires do not grip as well as the front tires, which creates oversteer. With the same kind of reasoning, you can see why increasing cross weight creates understeer.

Cross weight is usually difficult and time consuming to adjust on a street car even if you have installed aftermarket suspension components such as coilovers. Unless you are building a pure race car for oval tracks, you don’t have to worry about cross weight adjustments. Remember that the weight distribution of your car, particularly front bias, is the most fundamental characteristic that affects how your car handles. Keep in mind that the weight of the driver affects weight bias. Placing parts on the right side of the car will help balance the weight of the driver on the left side.

Scrub Radius:
The distance between the extended centerline of the steering axis and the centerline of the tire where the tread contacts the road. If the steering centerline is inboard of the tire centerline, the scrub radius is positive. If the steering centerline is outboard of the tire centerline, the scrub radius is negative. Rear-wheel drive cars and trucks generally have a positive scrub radius while FWD cars usually have zero or a negative scrub radius because they have a higher SAI angle. Using wheels with different offset than stock can alter the scrub radius.

Castor:
Caster angle is the angular displacement from the vertical axis of the suspension of a steered wheel in a car, bicycle or other vehicle, measured in the longitudinal direction. It is the angle between the pivot line (in a car - an imaginary line that runs through the center of the upper ball joint to the center of the lower ball joint) and vertical. Car racers sometimes adjust caster angle to optimize their car's handling characteristics in particular driving situations.

The pivot points of the steering are angled such that a line drawn through them intersects the road surface slightly ahead of the contact point of the wheel. The purpose of this is to provide a degree of self-centering for the steering - the wheel casters around so as to trail behind the axis of steering. This makes a car easier to drive and improves its straight line stability (reducing its tendency to wander). Excessive caster angle will make the steering heavier and less responsive, although, in racing, large caster angles are used to improve camber gain in cornering. Caster angles over 10 degrees with radial tires are common. Power steering is usually necessary to overcome the jacking effect from the high caster angle.

The steering axis does not have to pass through the center of the wheel, so the caster can be set independently of the mechanical trail, which is the distance between where the steering axis hits the ground, in side view, and the point directly below the axle. The interaction between caster angle and trail is complex, but roughly speaking they both aid steering, caster tends to add damping, while trail adds 'feel', and returnability. In the extreme case of the shopping trolley (shopping cart in the US) wheel, the system is undamped but stable, as the wheel oscillates around the 'correct' path. The shopping trolley/cart setup has a great deal of trail, but no caster. Complicating this still further is that the lateral forces at the tire do not act at the center of the contact patch, but at a distance behind the nominal contact patch. This distance is called the pneumatic trail and varies with speed, load, steer angle, surface, tire type, tire pressure and time. A good starting point for this is 30 mm behind the nominal contact patch.

Camber is probably the most useful and popular alignment adjustment that can be made to a street car. The other alignment adjustments are toe and caster. Camber is the angle of the wheel from the vertical as viewed from the front or the back of the car. Negative camber means that the top of the wheel is leaned in towards the car, and positive camber means that the top of the wheel is leaned out away from the car.

Maximum cornering force is achieved when the camber of the outside wheels relative to the ground is about -0.5 degrees. A slight negative camber in a turn maximizes the tire contact patch due to the way the tire deforms under lateral load. Hence, it is good to have some negative camber to increase cornering force.

Another reason why it is helpful to align your suspension with a slight negative camber is that camber will change with suspension travel and body roll. Most suspension systems are designed so that camber increases with more suspension travel. However, camber relative to the car's chassis is not the same thing as camber relative to the ground. It is camber relative to the ground that affects handling. Therefore, even though camber relative to the chassis is made to increase, camber relative to the ground may actually decrease on the outside wheels if there is substantial body roll. To counter this tendency, it is important to use negative camber and to control body roll.


Example of Negative Camber (Front View)
Enlarge
The only drawback to negative camber is increased wear on the inside of each tire. Since the top of the wheel is leaned in, the car is riding on the inside of the tire while it is on straightaways. In a corner, suspension travel and lateral forces on the tire’s rubber compound combine to straighten the tire relative to the ground. Therefore, the car rides evenly on the tire in turns, which improves cornering ability. However, extra time spent driving on the inside of the tire causes that part of the tire to heat up and wear. This effect is small if you avoid adding too much negative camber.

On most street cars, camber is not easily adjustable. However, if you choose to purchase aftermarket camber plates, you can set camber to improve handling. More negative camber tends to increase tire grip in corners. Therefore, if your car experiences understeer, you can decrease front camber (make it more negative) to improve front grip or increase rear camber (make it more positive) to decrease rear grip. Remember not to add too much negative or positive camber since it will decrease the life of your tires and may cause a blowout. Even pure race cars rarely use more than about 3 degrees of camber.

Camber, Caster and Toe: What Do They Mean?

The three major alignment parameters on a car are toe, camber, and caster. Most enthusiasts have a good understanding of what these settings are and what they involve, but many may not know why a particular setting is called for, or how it affects performance. Let's take a quick look at this basic aspect of suspension tuning.

UNDERSTANDING TOE

When a pair of wheels is set so that their leading edges are pointed slightly towards each other, the wheel pair is said to have toe-in. If the leading edges point away from each other, the pair is said to have toe-out. The amount of toe can be expressed in degrees as the angle to which the wheels are out of parallel, or more commonly, as the difference between the track widths as measured at the leading and trailing edges of the tires or wheels. Toe settings affect three major areas of performance: tire wear, straight-line stability and corner entry handling characteristics.

For minimum tire wear and power loss, the wheels on a given axle of a car should point directly ahead when the car is running in a straight line. Excessive toe-in or toe-out causes the tires to scrub, since they are always turned relative to the direction of travel. Too much toe-in causes accelerated wear at the outboard edges of the tires, while too much toe-out causes wear at the inboard edges.

So if minimum tire wear and power loss are achieved with zero toe, why have any toe angles at all? The answer is that toe settings have a major impact on directional stability. The illustrations at right show the mechanisms involved. With the steering wheel centered, toe-in causes the wheels to tend to roll along paths that intersect each other. Under this condition, the wheels are at odds with each other, and no turn results.

When the wheel on one side of the car encounters a disturbance, that wheel is pulled rearward about its steering axis. This action also pulls the other wheel in the same steering direction. If it's a minor disturbance, the disturbed wheel will steer only a small amount, perhaps so that it's rolling straight ahead instead of toed-in slightly. But note that with this slight steering input, the rolling paths of the wheels still don't describe a turn. The wheels have absorbed the irregularity without significantly changing the direction of the vehicle. In this way, toe-in enhances straight-line stability.

If the car is set up with toe-out, however, the front wheels are aligned so that slight disturbances cause the wheel pair to assume rolling directions that do describe a turn. Any minute steering angle beyond the perfectly centered position will cause the inner wheel to steer in a tighter turn radius than the outer wheel. Thus, the car will always be trying to enter a turn, rather than maintaining a straight line of travel. So it's clear that toe-out encourages the initiation of a turn, while toe-in discourages it.

The toe setting on a particular car becomes a tradeoff between the straight-line stability afforded by toe-in and the quick steering response promoted by toe-out. Nobody wants their street car to constantly wander over tar strips-the never-ending steering corrections required would drive anyone batty. But racers are willing to sacrifice a bit of stability on the straightaway for a sharper turn-in to the corners. So street cars are generally set up with toe-in, while race cars are often set up with toe-out.

With four-wheel independent suspension, the toe must also be set at the rear of the car. Toe settings at the rear have essentially the same effect on wear, directional stability and turn-in as they do on the front. However, it is rare to set up a rear-drive race car toed out in the rear, since doing so causes excessive oversteer, particularly when power is applied. Front-wheel-drive race cars, on the other hand, are often set up with a bit of toe-out, as this induces a bit of oversteer to counteract the greater tendency of front-wheel-drive cars to understeer.

Remember also that toe will change slightly from a static situation to a dynamic one. This is is most noticeable on a front-wheel-drive car or independently-suspended rear-drive car. When driving torque is applied to the wheels, they pull themselves forward and try to create toe-in. This is another reason why many front-drivers are set up with toe-out in the front. Likewise, when pushed down the road, a non-driven wheel will tend to toe itself out. This is most noticeable in rear-drive cars.

The amount of toe-in or toe-out dialed into a given car is dependent on the compliance of the suspension and the desired handling characteristics. To improve ride quality, street cars are equipped with relatively soft rubber bushings at their suspension links, and thus the links move a fair amount when they are loaded. Race cars, in contrast, are fitted with steel spherical bearings or very hard urethane, metal or plastic bushings to provide optimum rigidity and control of suspension links. Thus, a street car requires a greater static toe-in than does a race car, so as to avoid the condition wherein bushing compliance allows the wheels to assume a toe-out condition.

It should be noted that in recent years, designers have been using bushing compliance in street cars to their advantage. To maximize transient response, it is desirable to use a little toe-in at the rear to hasten the generation of slip angles and thus cornering forces in the rear tires. By allowing a bit of compliance in the front lateral links of an A-arm type suspension, the rear axle will toe-in when the car enters a hard corner; on a straightaway where no cornering loads are present, the bushings remain undistorted and allow the toe to be set to an angle that enhances tire wear and stability characteristics. Such a design is a type of passive four-wheel steering system.

THE EFFECTS OF CASTER

Caster is the angle to which the steering pivot axis is tilted forward or rearward from vertical, as viewed from the side. If the pivot axis is tilted backward (that is, the top pivot is positioned farther rearward than the bottom pivot), then the caster is positive; if it's tilted forward, then the caster is negative.

Positive caster tends to straighten the wheel when the vehicle is traveling forward, and thus is used to enhance straight-line stability. The mechanism that causes this tendency is clearly illustrated by the castering front wheels of a shopping cart (above). The steering axis of a shopping cart wheel is set forward of where the wheel contacts the ground. As the cart is pushed forward, the steering axis pulls the wheel along, and since the wheel drags along the ground, it falls directly in line behind the steering axis. The force that causes the wheel to follow the steering axis is proportional to the distance between the steering axis and the wheel-to-ground contact patch-the greater the distance, the greater the force. This distance is referred to as "trail."

Due to many design considerations, it is desirable to have the steering axis of a car's wheel right at the wheel hub. If the steering axis were to be set vertical with this layout, the axis would be coincident with the tire contact patch. The trail would be zero, and no castering would be generated. The wheel would be essentially free to spin about the patch (actually, the tire itself generates a bit of a castering effect due to a phenomenon known as "pneumatic trail," but this effect is much smaller than that created by mechanical castering, so we'll ignore it here). Fortunately, it is possible to create castering by tilting the steering axis in the positive direction. With such an arrangement, the steering axis intersects the ground at a point in front of the tire contact patch, and thus the same effect as seen in the shopping cart casters is achieved.

The tilted steering axis has another important effect on suspension geometry. Since the wheel rotates about a tilted axis, the wheel gains camber as it is turned. This effect is best visualized by imagining the unrealistically extreme case where the steering axis would be horizontal-as the steering wheel is turned, the road wheel would simply change camber rather than direction. This effect causes the outside wheel in a turn to gain negative camber, while the inside wheel gains positive camber. These camber changes are generally favorable for cornering, although it is possible to overdo it.

Most cars are not particularly sensitive to caster settings. Nevertheless, it is important to ensure that the caster is the same on both sides of the car to avoid the tendency to pull to one side. While greater caster angles serve to improve straight-line stability, they also cause an increase in steering effort. Three to five degrees of positive caster is the typical range of settings, with lower angles being used on heavier vehicles to keep the steering effort reasonable.

Camber is the angle of the wheel relative to vertical, as viewed from the front or the rear of the car. If the wheel leans in towards the chassis, it has negative camber; if it leans away from the car, it has positive camber (see next page). The cornering force that a tire can develop is highly dependent on its angle relative to the road surface, and so wheel camber has a major effect on the road holding of a car. It's interesting to note that a tire develops its maximum cornering force at a small negative camber angle, typically around neg. 1/2 degree. This fact is due to the contribution of camber thrust, which is an additional lateral force generated by elastic deformation as the tread rubber pulls through the tire/road interface (the contact patch).

To optimize a tire's performance in a corner, it's the job of the suspension designer to assume that the tire is always operating at a slightly negative camber angle. This can be a very difficult task, since, as the chassis rolls in a corner, the suspension must deflect vertically some distance. Since the wheel is connected to the chassis by several links which must rotate to allow for the wheel deflection, the wheel can be subject to large camber changes as the suspension moves up and down. For this reason, the more the wheel must deflect from its static position, the more difficult it is to maintain an ideal camber angle. Thus, the relatively large wheel travel and soft roll stiffness needed to provide a smooth ride in passenger cars presents a difficult design challenge, while the small wheel travel and high roll stiffness inherent in racing cars reduces the engineer's headaches.

It's important to draw the distinction between camber relative to the road, and camber relative to the chassis. To maintain the ideal camber relative to the road, the suspension must be designed so that wheel camber relative to the chassis becomes increasingly negative as the suspension deflects upward. The illustration on the bottom of page 46 shows why this is so. If the suspension were designed so as to maintain no camber change relative to the chassis, then body roll would induce positive camber of the wheel relative to the road. Thus, to negate the effect of body roll, the suspension must be designed so that it pulls in the top of the wheel (i.e., gains negative camber) as it is deflected upwards.

While maintaining the ideal camber angle throughout the suspension travel assures that the tire is operating at peak efficiency, designers often configure the front suspensions of passenger cars so that the wheels gain positive camber as they are deflected upward. The purpose of such a design is to reduce the cornering power of the front end relative to the rear end, so that the car will understeer in steadily greater amounts up to the limit of adhesion. Understeer is inherently a much safer and more stable condition than oversteer, and thus is preferable for cars intended for the public.

Since most independent suspensions are designed so that the camber varies as the wheel moves up and down relative to the chassis, the camber angle that we set when we align the car is not typically what is seen when the car is in a corner. Nevertheless, it's really the only reference we have to make camber adjustments. For competition, it's necessary to set the camber under the static condition, test the car, then alter the static setting in the direction that is indicated by the test results.

The best way to determine the proper camber for competition is to measure the temperature profile across the tire tread immediately after completing some hot laps. In general, it's desirable to have the inboard edge of the tire slightly hotter than the outboard edge. However, it's far more important to ensure that the tire is up to its proper operating temperature than it is to have an "ideal" temperature profile. Thus, it may be advantageous to run extra negative camber to work the tires up to temperature.

Car manufacturers will always have recommended toe, caster, and camber settings. They arrived at these numbers through exhaustive testing. Yet the goals of the manufacturer were probably different from yours, the competitor. And what works best at one race track may be off the mark at another. So the "proper" alignment settings are best determined by you-it all boils down to testing and experimentation

Wt transfer to the LR on "bump"/compression of the RF axel through a turn:
Swaybars aren't bad and they are not necessarily the "last step" in upgrading a suspensions' performance. Swaybars are just another piece of the suspension pie, so to speak. If you think you can get the same effect that swaybars have to offer by springs/shocks alone, they you are going to sacrifice suppleness of your ride as you will need to have a very stiffly sprung and damped car to remove body roll. By using the bars in conjunction with stiffer springs/shocks, you can increase cornering performance while maintaining decent ride quality by adjusting your front and rear springs/shocks to decrease dive and lift. Let everything do its job. Let the springs support the car and resist compression of a corner. Let the shock dampen the compression of a corner and let the swaybars equalize the compression (through distribution of resistance) of two corners when one is compressed or extended. Misc things like ALK's, poly bushings, pillow balls and so forth can be further used to fine tune.

Tires are another piece of the pie in that say going from the stock 205/55/16 to say a 225/40/18 will further decrease the percieved "body roll" since there is less tire to "roll over" under high cornering loads.

If you just try to use one item to achieve max performance, it will be a very rough ride. By addressing each piece individually, you can divide up the duties of maintaining the cars poise and maximum performance while still maintaining a relatively kidney-pleasing ride.

Actually, using a smaller front swaybar increases body roll which in turn decreases the static camber angle at the front wheels.

Swaybars have nothing to do with Static Camber. Static Camber is the amount of camber set in the car at rest - dynamic camber is the result of the movement of the suspension and again is not effected by the sway bar other than as a function of the roll angle. Depending on where you are in the camber curve more roll MAY INCREASE the dynamic camber - however - there is a point of no return. For most cars at some point the combination of static camber and dynamic camber gain fail to keep up with the roll angle.

Ok, so the stock suspension tends to understeer, and pretty much everyone agrees this isn't very fun... the common solution is to put a huge rear swaybar... now, what this is really doing is pulling grip away from the rear... this seems counter productive to me...

Your looking at this from the wrong angle. What matters is the realitive roll resistance, or balance front to rear. Lets say I increase both the front and rear bars "equal" amounts. I've not changed the balance just upped the total roll resistance - less body roll - same "understeer" bigger bars front and rear. Now I'm going to kill the still present understeer by going to a smaller front bar. A little less total roll resistance than my first change but better balance less "understeer" than either stock or the first change. Guess what I'm back to a "stock"size front bar and a larger rear bar!


Lowering the car to much without modifing pickup points can really take you out off the camber gain curve - limit your camber gain - you then need to crank in massive amounts of static camber to make up for this. Not good for braking or tire wear. All depends on the suspension design. Dampers can vary the speed at which the weight transfer takes place and therefore the corner entry and exit behavior but really aren't the main place to work on oversteer/understeer balance.

I also wish you a very Merry Christmas.
Indeed It has been a great year


disclaimer "These opinions are mine and mine alone and do not reflect the opinions of any other entity, either real or imagined, and should be taken as such. I have no intention of offending anyone it's not in my best interest or in my intentions. All I really want to do is drive in circles in the dirt and have a good time."
oh forgot this
I have an opinion and I am not affraid to speak it, if you don't like it don't read it.
I am a smartass, my comments are often intended to make you laugh, think, and right to the point.
"As a smartass, it's my job to push people's buttons. But I'm a smartass with a positive attitude."

#32
larryo

larryo

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biggrin.gif Hey Chuck,

Just want to say thanks for all the information. Still trying to digest it all, but it is helpful
and it made me think about Wt Transfer and static wts, along with the many definitions about toe in
and toe out.

Like I said I haven't been able to digest it all, but I was still waiting for somebody to say or talk
about the ackerman combined with caster and scrub radius resulting in load transfer from RF to LR
when the wheels are turned right. But you gave me a lot to think about..ie. the static wt and how
dynamically it changes so you adjust your static ride for when the dynamic forces come into
play when braking and accelerating.

How's you Dad and God Bless?

Larry "O"...2008 is goin' to be my year...LOL!




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