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New 2.4 liter Eco Tec Engine complete.


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#1
larryo

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I have being seeing these ads for a new 2.4 liter eco-tec engine complete, including wiring harness and CPU.
Don't know if it could be used in any form of midget racing? Here is the link:

http://cgi.ebay.com/...sQ5fAccessories

Merry Christmans and a Happy New Year.

I got a feeling 2011, should be a good year for racing.

Sincerely,

Larry Otani

#2
ecotec

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Larry, Set racing is useing both the 2.2 and 2.4 chevy ecotec engine.Our engine uses eletramotive ignition and mechanical fuel injection.The fans at sun prarie watched the #7 stewart,driver Charlie Holt 2.2 ecotec run very stong,against Kirt Mayhew and Mr.Gillis the 2010 IRS champion.You can view our packages at SET racing.com .Thank you for your intrest.2011 is going to be the year with big tires and small bull ring racing with these high torch engines.Thanks again Roger.

#3
Bluedresser

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Larry - Pardon me, but I can't see why anyone would want to put mechanical fuel injectors on the Eko-tech engine. Why go back to the buggy whip days? The full electronic engine is the key to the future. Look at what young Dillon Silverman from Chico did in the BCRA series this year. He finished second in points again all of the BIG engines. A great example of the engine potential and of Dillon's driving ability is the time he won a heat at Chowchilla, pulled a full invert pill. Started 16th in the main event and finished SECOND, behind Buckwheat Sills. We keep talking about inovation and how we want it, yet too many people are fighting technology. JMO

#4
larryo

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Dear JMO,

You goin' to the Chillibowl? Looks like it goin' to be a wonderful day of racing at the Chillibowl. I really can't say anything about these new engines, I just happened to see some engines that looked like they were very cheap and inexpensive and I decided to post it. I'm kind of old school and barely understand the old technology, so I would be pretty dumb founded if I tried to play with an ECU, trying to get a little more power out of the engine and to me me racing is 90% about building the cars and little about racing them. It just so happens all my friends are just the opposite. They could care less about the technology and just want to race them. So to them they could care less if it had electronic fuel injection or hilborn mechanical injection. As long as the cars are cheap, produce a lot of power and are dependable, I think that is what most people want.

Personally for me I kind of like the new Raybesto's hot rod. It uses an old school hilborn injection system, but replaces the mechanial injectors with electronic ones and a fancy, expensive ECU. Personally I kind of like that ...lol! But I do know what you are saying, but really this year racing has taught me something.

One of the owners of NASCAR put it rather simply. Most people in racing change things because it will benefit themselves in one way or another. There is probaby only one person in racing who does it for the betterment of the sport. To put it quite simply most people change things in racing to make a dollar, they are not interested in bettering the sport.

I'm 55 years old and I think that sums it up about the human experience.

And God Bless you!

Larry "O"

P.S. Hope to see you at the Chillibowl. It should be a lot of fun!

#5
Bluedresser

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Larry - You're going to have a blast at the Chili Bowl - I did every time I went there. I used to go with my friend Charlie, but he has a lung problem and can't take it anymore and I really hate going without him. Besides, I have all of my cars in little pieces and only have four weeks to get at least one of them running for next season. Regarding the ECU - the smart thinking is that one way to prevent people from cheating on the ECU is for the sanctioning body to have a few on hand when you sign in, and then at random exchange them. It only takes a few minutes to change them over and would go a long way to keep everyone straight and the costs down. The Ecotech is sort of like the Focus except for more power and less maintenance. It's inexpensive and will last about 40+ races between overhauls that are slated to cost about $4,000 including a new crank. That's hard to beat.

#6
Midget2154

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J.R.,
Love your feedback on the EcoTec, however, the one question most racers want to know, is why pay $10,000 for a sportsman engine when there are ample more powerful, just as efficient full-powered USED engines on the market?

No denying Dillon's driving ability - he's a skilled Midget racer and driver, BUT he didn't really beat anyone in the BCRA championship, as only two drivers even ran the entire slate of races (Foster and Silverman).

Dillon deserves credit, but to be honest, ANYONE who showed up and ran all the BCRA races would have been guaranteed top 3 in BCRA points. It's the sad state of BCRA and Midget arcing - just not many car owners willing to run an entire schedule.

When the EcoTec can produce 300HP and prove it can run with the top Esslingers and Gaerte, then I will be a believer.

Just not feeling the overpriced sportsman engine right now.

I do, however, agree 100 percent on going ECM ... There's absolutely no reason to place mechanical injection on engines that are efficient as can be with ECMs on-board. Just an added expense and potential problem.

Hopelly, the ECoTecs start WINNING races soon and proving that a 10,000 ECM, Sportsman engine can, and will hang with the big dogs every day.

#7
larryo

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Bluedresser gave a few hints on a strong cheap motor. The crank being one of them.

Not that it makes any difference but Jim at Ventura, Ca will be running his own Midget series next year.

I'm sure it will be quite successful, but I will bet my life the stands will only be half filled, at best.

So,in many ways although Jim is giving racing what it wants, I do not think the sport will grow. It will be another exclusive club for the rich. But the racing should be rather good. In fact, all the racing at Ventura is "rather" good, but the stands are never really ever filled. The only time I see the stands filled at Ventura is when USAC/CRA comes to Ventura, Ca. But this year Jim will be hosting no USAC events. At least that is what I see at present. I could be wrong. I usually am.

Another series that I see that is still hanging in there is the Focus Midgets, but I'm confused if these races are USAC or just Focus Cars running at many of the track in California. And I'm talking dirt.

I thought the Focus car were a great deal, but the more powerful Focus engines never came. That is really sad, the Focus Series still is and could be a rather great attraction. There are a lot of those cars still out there and they have starters. I still think the starter deal is an excellent idea. I know there is a lot of purest out there, but I have always been into racing for the fun of it and the Focus Series was the most fun I ever had in racing. We had a lot of fun at a very low cost. I think when all was said and done, we broke "even" in cost. We actually raced for a couple of years for basically nothing. We got a good deal on the cars, sold them for a fair price and made a little money on the races. It was a great deal and the most fun anybody could of had. For the serious racers there are many avenues and full midgets is one of them, followed by sprint cars, etc. But I really question how much fun racing is when it costs you the bank to even show up to the track. For me that is not fun.
Bob taught me well. He said "Larry racing is racing, we don't have to race sprint cars or midgets to have fun". He was right, I will never ever in my life have more fun in racing than when we raced the Focus Midgets. We will be racing a few midget races next year, a few sprint car races and probably a few winged sprint car races, but I really don't think it will be that much fun. Too much pressure, to much cost and too much competition. It becomes more of a burden than pure fun. And I like less pressure, less costs and less competition. I am not a real racer. I just enjoy racing and I have learned you don't have to spend a lot of money in racing to have a lot of fun and a good time and enjoy the racers and fans you meet. I owe that all to Bob. He taught me well.


But as far at the Hilborn mechanical injection goes, I'm sold 100% on the idea and use. But I think the injectors should be electronic. I think that is the golden egg dropped from the rear end of the goose...lol! That is what I personally would like to see. And when USAC or any other organization makes that change that will be for the betterment of the sport and racing.

Sincerely,

Larry Otani and my best wishes for all the competitors at this years Chillibowl. It should be a lot of fun lol! And God Bless you all!

#8
Bluedresser

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Larry - regarding the Ecotech. Please don't hold me to EXACT numbers, just check the concept. Work is already progressing towards the gen 2 stage of the engine that will bring the horsepower up to around 320 at around 8500 rpm. From what I've been told, the Ecotech that is running in the rallys get that much horsepower or a little more - with the stock crank. I've been told that the crank can handle 450 horsepower at 9500 rpm, so it's one strong puppy. The engine is self starting, which means that you can start it and warm the oil and water up in the pits without external heaters, saving a few bucks. There is no clutch or pressure plate so it requires a push start. The lack of that rotating mass allows the engine to accelerate and decelerate much quicker than the Focus, and the variable cam timing means that the torque curve rises verry quickly and stays flat throughout the rpm range. That variable cam timing means that the engine performs as though it has more than 240 horsepower. As for the electronic injection system, I was concerned as I know nothing about electronics, but it's so much easier than a mechanical system - no jets to change - no need for a weather station in the trailer - it starts and runs and that's it. It's a real run engine and makes a great, inexpensive package.

As for your friend "Jim", it would be great if he would be a PROMOTER instead of just another run of the mill track operator. You're right regarding no fans in the stands. In the years I competed there I watched him stick it more and more to the competitors, bunching more and more types of cars into the pits, doing less and less maintenance on the track between races (too many classes means not enough time), and then cutting the laps and the purses (30%) over the years. You wonder why the Focus fields have dropped 10-20% down there? Let me give you a few reasons. For those who have to travel there, like me, it costs me on the average of $1200 per race. 1000 miles of towing, three days out of my life, two nights in motels, nine meals on the road, etc. Then I watch "Jim" cut us down to four practice laps, he cuts out the time trials (can't have time trials when you want to pack in two more classes) and gives us a great 20-lap feature event that he cut to as few as 11 on many too many occasions.

You wonder why car counts are so far down? Too many track operators and not enough real promoters. "Jim" couldn't promote a free lunch in my opinion.

#9
Revolution Racing

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Just a few additional thoughts on this. As JR points out, we ARE in the process of giving the RRE ECOtec some more power. There is a LOT of potential in this engine, and we want to keep cost as low as possible so we are sneaking up on this. Someone pointed out that 10k is a lot for a 'sportsman' engine - remember these are all NEW engines, do the math on all new pumps, manifolds, pans, fuel system etc and you will see that the cost is in the parts - the engine itself is cheap. Also remember that this engine will run for years with no rebuilds (the true cost of an engine is not what it costs to BUY, it's what it costs to keep running). Also remember, the engines we ran last year were, internally, factory stock with no modifications. There is tremendous potential for development of this engine, as well as many others like it from virtually every manufacturer on the planet. All one needs to do is take a look at the modern 4 cylinder engines being produced for programs like Indy Lights, Star Mazda, World Rally Circuit, and others to see the potential that exists here - and also, unfortunately, the potential for even higher costs. My point here is that if we are smart we'll use this new technology to provide competitive engines at lower overall cost as opposed to creating superior engines at higher cost.

Many Midget guys I talk to are fearful about that last part. The idea of some new engine that they don't completely understand, built by some guy they don't know, is enough to get them talking in terms of just outlawing this technology and keeping Midgets on the same path they have been on for decades. Unfortunately, the path we have been on is also a problem and the problems we are having are not getting better. The answer here is to utilize new technology TO OUR ADVANTAGE. For Midget racing, I believe this means we must keep our existing inventory intact with no changes, and then create new rules that allow controlled versions of this new technology to also join the party. This will require LEADERSHIP from our officials, and COOPERATION from our participants, each of which I have found to be rare qualities. But, we are talking about the survival of the sport here.

The key to all of this, I believe, will be to get our officials thinking in terms of a new rule book to keep pace with these new engines. The old rule book is fine (I guess) for the traditional, mechanical engines. But if we try to define what is legal on a modern engine by simply defining how many valves it can have and how big it can be, we are asking for big problems. Remember, Indy Car engines are only 2.2 liters! The good news here is that making this great new technology our slave (instead of becoming a slave to it) is really not hard at all - much easier, for example, than trying to make sense of the current mess of rules we are working with. It all starts with questions, and discussion. The answers are out there - unfortunately, too many people seem to be taking the 'don't confuse me with facts' approach.

#10
pokieokie

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I get tickled every time this subject comes to the surface....again. When the Quad-4 first came along, the first thing people wanted to know was "what can I do to run with the $30,000 engines?" Simple...spend $30,000. Nothing's changed but the numbers. Heck, A.J. Foyt ran over 200 mph with a Quad-4, but is cost the moon to build it. Pull up the video of Michael Pickens running the main at this year's Chili Bowl and turn up the sound. Now find me an engine that will take what he did to that Esslinger, costs less and doesn't need a rebuild the next day. Money = speed and speed costs money. Always has, always will. The big engines can be beaten when the stars align...generally on dry-slick track, but most of the time money wins. The new generation Eco-techs are a great engine and a way to go racing maybe without going to the poorhouse. I just hope all the tweaking and improving doesn't wind up with something that's neither fish nor fowl...second best to the big buck engines and too expensive to boot, 'cause Esslinger and those guys aren't sitting still waiting to get caught. If you're racing for a living, spend what it takes and shut up. If you're racing for fun, spend what you can afford and enjoy beating the other guys who are running the same stuff.

#11
Revolution Racing

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I get tickled every time this subject comes to the surface....again. When the Quad-4 first came along, the first thing people wanted to know was "what can I do to run with the $30,000 engines?" Simple...spend $30,000. Nothing's changed but the numbers. Heck, A.J. Foyt ran over 200 mph with a Quad-4, but is cost the moon to build it. Pull up the video of Michael Pickens running the main at this year's Chili Bowl and turn up the sound. Now find me an engine that will take what he did to that Esslinger, costs less and doesn't need a rebuild the next day. Money = speed and speed costs money. Always has, always will. The big engines can be beaten when the stars align...generally on dry-slick track, but most of the time money wins. The new generation Eco-techs are a great engine and a way to go racing maybe without going to the poorhouse. I just hope all the tweaking and improving doesn't wind up with something that's neither fish nor fowl...second best to the big buck engines and too expensive to boot, 'cause Esslinger and those guys aren't sitting still waiting to get caught. If you're racing for a living, spend what it takes and shut up. If you're racing for fun, spend what you can afford and enjoy beating the other guys who are running the same stuff.


Okie....
Will Rodgers probably could not have said it better.

I think that if we play our cards right, this new stuff can make a dent in the speed/money equation, but ONLY a dent. In the end, if we don't look for better leadership, better management... we'll just end up making more power for more money.




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