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Sammy Chillibowl car.


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#1
larryo

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After watching Sammy's car at the Chillibowl on Speed TV, a couple of times/different showing dates I was trying to figure out why was that car so hooked up.

I came up with these few reasons why it was so good.

1) Low center of gravity, in which the the low square fuel cell helped/was a part. It allowed the fuel load to aid in the low center of gravity. Maybe a considerable part of the fuel was below the CG/rear axel centerline?

2) Low "moment of internia". Again as apposed to the fuel being high in a conventional fuel tank, the sqaure fuel tank kept it close to the roll center, aiding in less motion, loading or unloading the rear suspenision.
The rear tires kept planted with little variation between RR and LR loading.

3) Why harp on "low moment" of inertia. Sammy's getting old...lol, but if you car acts quicker, you get traction quicker and you roll less and it takes less time to make a turn, cut or maneuver. The car act quicker because all your weight, rear weight bias is centered around the rear roll center line, goin' through the rear end to the front of the car. With more internia to make the car roll around the centerline, your car acts quicker.


A few thousandths of a second can determine a pass or get you bottlenecked behind a competitor.

4) The car was tight/exact and you have to be on your game. No mistakes are allowed and it is hard to drive a tight car, but the car is light to begin with, so "tight" is a relative measure. Tight on Sammy's car, might be toward loose side on a standard car, that people are racing.


5) Having a light car and specically light "unsprung" wt means you car reacts quicker. Quickness is the name of the game and can get you around a competitor. Light unsprung wts aids 'moment of inertia' around a centerline from center of rear axel to center of panhard rod on the front axe. You still need wt to push the rear tires into the ground (static wt) but it that ratio of sprung wt to unsprung wt that makes your quicker reacting/better handling and more maneurable.

Well, that all for now. Just thoughts. I think about this all the time, imagining you're in the car and how does it(the car) react feel as you/driver/racer drives the car around the track.

Larry "O" and my best wishes to all on Midgetmadness.

#2
5118

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After watching Sammy's car at the Chillibowl on Speed TV, a couple of times/different showing dates I was trying to figure out why was that car so hooked up.

I came up with these few reasons why it was so good.

1) Low center of gravity, in which the the low square fuel cell helped/was a part. It allowed the fuel load to aid in the low center of gravity. Maybe a considerable part of the fuel was below the CG/rear axel centerline?

2) Low "moment of internia". Again as apposed to the fuel being high in a conventional fuel tank, the sqaure fuel tank kept it close to the roll center, aiding in less motion, loading or unloading the rear suspenision.
The rear tires kept planted with little variation between RR and LR loading.

3) Why harp on "low moment" of inertia. Sammy's getting old...lol, but if you car acts quicker, you get traction quicker and you roll less and it takes less time to make a turn, cut or maneuver. The car act quicker because all your weight, rear weight bias is centered around the rear roll center line, goin' through the rear end to the front of the car. With more internia to make the car roll around the centerline, your car acts quicker.


A few thousandths of a second can determine a pass or get you bottlenecked behind a competitor.

4) The car was tight/exact and you have to be on your game. No mistakes are allowed and it is hard to drive a tight car, but the car is light to begin with, so "tight" is a relative measure. Tight on Sammy's car, might be toward loose side on a standard car, that people are racing.


5) Having a light car and specically light "unsprung" wt means you car reacts quicker. Quickness is the name of the game and can get you around a competitor. Light unsprung wts aids 'moment of inertia' around a centerline from center of rear axel to center of panhard rod on the front axe. You still need wt to push the rear tires into the ground (static wt) but it that ratio of sprung wt to unsprung wt that makes your quicker reacting/better handling and more maneurable.

Well, that all for now. Just thoughts. I think about this all the time, imagining you're in the car and how does it(the car) react feel as you/driver/racer drives the car around the track.

Larry "O" and my best wishes to all on Midgetmadness.


how about the fact that samy is 1 of the best dirt drivers,and has the most experiance in the country that was at the chili bowl

#3
larryo

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You are absolutely right 5118!

I left that very important fact out! My mistake...lol! I kind of thought that went without saying...lol!

But, one comment Sammy made at the Chillibowl, on TV was that he felt without a doubt he had brought and designed two of the best cars to the Chillibowl. I don't know if he made his sons car, but maybe he did.

What is really neat as you allude too is that Sammy has a lot experience at the Chillibowl. Very few drivers have his experience and engineering mind to constantly redesign new cars. Name one other driver in the world
that constantly is driving and putting that experience into new new technology when he brings a car to the track. I think that one important point is what sets Sammy appart from all the rest when you race at the Chillibowl and in reality that has to be about 90% of what racing about. What are you doin' in the shop that sets you above the rest. This has to be a common theme in all of racing. If a young driver has this one important point above all the rest you should be a cut above them. It's your "unfair" advantage!

Don't forget luck. Even Tracy Hines says you have to be lucky at the Chillibowl.

Sincerely,

Larry Otani, god bless you and the rest! And thanks for the post. A lot of people are viewing it? That is what amazes me? Other people reading these posts and even the technical ones. There is still hope for people to open their minds and learn.

#4
In2Deep

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I think that what makes Sammy the best at the Chili Bowl are these things:

1 - His cars are always well prepared and maintained.
2 - Since he got away from the big horsepower Mopar motors and went back with a standard Esslinger, both he and Kevin have gotten faster. Power is one thing, but driveable power is better.
3 - The current car that Sammy has had so much success in is a standard Spike Chassis with a few of Sammy's special features that he adds to them, but they are not that different now from what you buy. Most of the items are bolt on parts now.
4- Shocks - Sammy is the best I have seen at dialing in his racecar. Seems like every yellow, Sammy is working the knobs on to dial in the shocks, adjusting the car to the track conditions. The Super Shox that are done to his likes by Brian set him apart.
5 - Sammy has the best feel for a car and can compensate better than most. In the A main of the last Chili Bowl, he broke a shock tower in one of his pile-ups and was able to make an adjustment in his driving style to compensate for that. He still had the fastest car in the race with a basically seized up front suspension.

#5
larryo

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In 2 Deep,

Rummor has it that Sammy's car weighs in about 600 lbs. I would believe it. One thing is for certain that car is hooked up. I wouldn't be surprized if Sammy weighs 200 lbs. Although, I have never met Sammy he looks short and if he did weigh 200 lbs all that wt is in a ball low in the seat. That's the best place to put it...ie...low in the seat.

You say his car is a standard Spike. I doubt it, but you say it is and I won't dispute it. The mind play tricks, but from the TV the car looks like it has a short wheel base. I don't know if it is or if Spike sells a lot of short wheel base Spikes. There is no doubt that Spikes are a good chassis, if not one of the best or the best. They seem to have a lot of success. Does Sammy's car look like a wide body? Does Spike sell Wide Body chassis. I'm just guessing and I am probably wrong on all accounts.

If Sammy's car is standard spike and weighs 600lbs, he has a lof of lightweight components on it. I think Sammy is one of the few guys that has had a torque ball and yoke literally explode bewteen his legs. So Sammy knows how to make stuff light...ie.. the "bolt on stuff"....lol!

Sincerely,

Larry "O" and I just bring up these ideas, although they may be wrong to tease the mind.

I bet those shocks are special...real special. Best wishes and God Bless you!

#6
lowpassjim

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I've been around this racing deal a long time. Watched old Sammy run his first time in a sprint car at the bowl. I've been a huge fan and still am. I don't think anyone can argue he's maybe the most talented open wheel guy out there. Even at his age, he can kick most of the young guys asses on his worst day. Here's the down side, and I hope Sammy reads this. He either needs to get a better attitude, or quit! Every time it don't go his way, he is either wanting to fight, or bitching about how stupid and bad all the other guys are. Come on Sammy, don't tarnish your accomlishments with all that crap. You are the King, without the King name. Be the man, and quit blaming.
Good luck, your still my hero!

#7
Jack stavonavich

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Larry don't forget the polar moment has also changed with his fuel tank being shorter!

#8
larryo

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To lowpassjim,

I agree with what you say. I don't always see Sammy's bad moments, but as a race fan I just laugh my A$$ off when I hear about them from fans, racers or web posters.

I love the last few races they have shown on TV when Sammy has done good and bad on the WoO tour. The announcer just laughed also and said "Sammy does all his talking with his driving" and sometimes we see Sammy at his absolute best. Sammy is not much of a talker and I think it is his training or conditioning not to get to excited or to sad, so he speaks in melon-tone and it comes out very drab or sinister when he speaks. He just does things with his actions on the track and not with his mouth off the track or during interviews. He's a true racer and not a talker or role model, which he has never had time to think about or be. He races to put food on the table and that is it and that is his life.

To Jack,

I'm so glad you brought up the point about "Polar Moment of Inertia". A great "physics" term that has real life meaning. They use to talk about the 911 having a high moment of interia, but when it got out of control all that weight in the rear brought the A$$ end of the car around and out of control. It was tricky to drive and handle at high 'speed'. Again with Sammy's short, small and squatty tank he keeps the weight from hanging off the A$$ end of the car, which means it has a less tendency to spin out. He's always going forward and driving hard. So his car requires great skill to handle. A guy use to swinging the A$$ end of the car around would have trouble driving his car because it is different. It's probably the Wing Style Approach where you drive the car straight and not the non-wing style where they like to throw the rear end of the car out and around to get around the corners. Thanks again for the thought. It's an important one.

Sincerely,

Larry "O" :D

#9
lowpassjim

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To lowpassjim,

I agree with what you say. I don't always see Sammy's bad moments, but as a race fan I just laugh my A$$ off when I hear about them from fans, racers or web posters.

I love the last few races they have shown on TV when Sammy has done good and bad on the WoO tour. The announcer just laughed also and said "Sammy does all his talking with his driving" and sometimes we see Sammy at his absolute best. Sammy is not much of a talker and I think it is his training or conditioning not to get to excited or to sad, so he speaks in melon-tone and it comes out very drab or sinister when he speaks. He just does things with his actions on the track and not with his mouth off the track or during interviews. He's a true racer and not a talker or role model, which he has never had time to think about or be. He races to put food on the table and that is it and that is his life.

To Jack,

I'm so glad you brought up the point about "Polar Moment of Inertia". A great "physics" term that has real life meaning. They use to talk about the 911 having a high moment of interia, but when it got out of control all that weight in the rear brought the A$$ end of the car around and out of control. It was tricky to drive and handle at high 'speed'. Again with Sammy's short, small and squatty tank he keeps the weight from hanging off the A$$ end of the car, which means it has a less tendency to spin out. He's always going forward and driving hard. So his car requires great skill to handle. A guy use to swinging the A$$ end of the car around would have trouble driving his car because it is different. It's probably the Wing Style Approach where you drive the car straight and not the non-wing style where they like to throw the rear end of the car out and around to get around the corners. Thanks again for the thought. It's an important one.

Sincerely,

Larry "O" :D



#10
Jack stavonavich

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Larry do you think the roll couple has been effected buy the fuel tank location?

#11
larryo

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Dear Jack, I had this long lengthy post which got lost somehow when I posted it. If you mean roll couple being the same thing as "Moment of Inertia" my answer is yes. I believe Sammy is trying to locate the fuel tank closer to the driver, effectively shortening the distance from the front roll center to the rear roll center of the car. I don't know if this answers your question, but like I said, this is one of two ideas posted so far.

The other was my point about positioning the gas tank around the roll center, hence its configuration compared to a standard tank which is much higher about the roll center. Position the tank about the roll center as in Sammy's car allows the car to roll right and then left faster, causing it to be faster around the turns. We are not talking much but its part of the overall handling package. And I think Sammy wants every advantage he can muster. He has never been afraid to be different and hopefully faster. He's willing to take the chance, which many may not even know what he is trying to do, engineering wise. Sometimes well ideas, based on sound engineering don't work out, but first you have to know what you are trying to do engineering wise, before you have the guts to go try it out. I think Sammy has both and he is also a great driver and he is not afraid to go where most can't even dream. :D

Sincerely,

Larry Otani

#12
racer35k

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i can still remember the time sammy blasted the push truck in the rear in a sprint car. obviously staring at the dashboard full throttle going down the front straight. seen alot of dumb things in my life,but that has got to be #1.

#13
pokieokie

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i can still remember the time sammy blasted the push truck in the rear in a sprint car. obviously staring at the dashboard full throttle going down the front straight. seen alot of dumb things in my life,but that has got to be #1.



Sorry, but that was a green flag qualifying lap, so there shouldn't have been a truck there to begin with. At the speed Swindell was running, there wasn't much time to do anything, even if the truck kept a straight line, and it's been a long time since I've seen the video, but I think he wandered even further out onto the groove. Now, if you want to talk about Mario Andretti hitting a car that had been parked in the same place for three laps in bright sunlight on a road course, you've probably got something. Of course, we all know what a wanker HE was.




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